Feedback on 2005 XTerra S 4.0L 6-speed, as a daily driver...

"BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast." (boxerfanatic) 09/10/2013 at 23:29 • Filed to: Nissan, Xterra

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I have been thinking Forester 2.5X Premium, as a CUV with AWD and a manual.

But this is available, and I have thought about XTerra before.

Pros:

Good torquey V6. Robust truck parts. purposeful looks. likely affordable to maintain, and reliable. This one has relatively low miles, below 80K. One of the last SUVs, and one of the few with a manual gearbox. Quite practical for cargo and towing.

Cons:

not full-time AWD, with a locking transfer case. Good in snow pack and offroad, not necessarily great on mixed snow and dry pavement like 3-diff AWD.

Base model, few options. Truck-like handling with a solid axle and tall tires and ride height. Truck-like fuel economy.

But I am sort of used to less fuel economy, and rough handling from a thirsty turbo Legacy with worn suspension bushings.

Does anyone have first hand, or near experience with one of these as a daily driver? Pitfalls? or are they better than the analytical reviews and figures on the page?

Should I hold out for a Pathfinder LE with 3-mode AWD and IRS, instead, or keep looking for 5-speed Foresters?

Nibby > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/10/2013 at 23:30

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Forester FTW

J. Walter Weatherman > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/10/2013 at 23:46

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I had one as a DD for a number of years. I thought it was a fantastic truck and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone. Mine was the Off Road trim with the 6-speed. I really liked the engine and transmission. Just the right amount of power - fun to drive and relatively quick, but not super thirsty. I probably averaged 18 mpg in town and low 20s on the highway (not great, but not terrible for an SUV either). Handling and ride was better than I expected from a tall, body-on-frame SUV. It felt downright nimble compared to my current 80-Series Land Cruiser. Reliability was flawless (sold it with 99k miles, never had a problem), and service was cheap. I am in Tucson, AZ, so I didn't have much experience with it in cold/icy weather, but I did take it to Colorado to go snowboarding a couple times and it never had any issues the few times we were in crappy conditions.

Let me know if you have any particular questions.

Party-vi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/10/2013 at 23:54

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I'm confused. The Xterra has a part-time 2 speed transfer case (real 4WD). This means in 4Hi or 4Lo the front and rear drive shafts spin in unison. I believe the Xterra with the off road package had a locking rear diff. Also AWD doesn't work like 4WD. AWD defaults power to either front or back wheels, and when slippage occurs sends power to the other wheels for more traction (Quattro is default FWD in the A4 and sends power to the back wheels). 4WD is an actual mechanical linkage where power is applied to all wheels at once. Full-time AWD increased wear on suspension and drive train components when compared to part time and also affects handling.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > J. Walter Weatherman 09/10/2013 at 23:54

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Is it it worth holding out for an OffRoad trim, compared to a base S? Is a Pathfinder notably better, worth giving up the manual gearbox for?

18~22ish is not bad. About what my Turbo Legacy gets. Does it require Premium, or does it run well on lower-octane?

J. Walter Weatherman > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/10/2013 at 23:59

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I thought that the seats were noticeably nicer on the Off Road, and I took it off road a bit, so the larger tires and locking rear differential were worth it to me for the upgrade. If you don't care about those things, I don't see the reason to spend the extra money. I don't think that there is anything better about the Pathfinder - really it is just bigger . Unless you need the space, I would stick with the Xterra. Premium is a waste of money in the Xterra - it runs exactly the same on regular.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/11/2013 at 00:08

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Kay, so stepdad had one for 25K miles. They have real uncomfortable back seats!
but, it CAN fit & haul 10 bags of cement & a wheelbarrow with no problems.
it's up there with wranglers off road. Rear suspension bushings can get squeaky which is a pain on bumpy roads. cruising @ 85 on freeway is easy, and is surprisingly nimble on twisty roads
good overall, but drinks gas. That's it's only pitfall
also, be careful, this thing picks up it's boots and sprints to 60,70,80+ MUCH faster than most 4 cylinder crossovers, and sedans!
it keeps up with the likes of Civic Si's and Mk4/5 Gti's*
Mk5's a stretch, but it certainly is a fast ride!

Boxer_4 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/11/2013 at 00:19

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My only experience with the Forester is the SH 2.5X Limited with the EJ253 and 4EAT. I have no experience with the 5MT, and no experience with the XTerra. My personal preference is the Forester (I may be a bit biased, since that's what I drive when I'm home). The SH is a good all around package that seems to everything you want it to without complaint or drama, with a little bit of fun. I like that I often forget I am driving a CUV with 8.7 inches of ground clearance. The handling is decently sharp for being a CUV, and I often have a blast driving it. That is especially true on corner laden back roads. The body roll does make itself known if you push it hard enough, however. That being said, it is still capable in moderate off-road situations. We've had it on rutted camping trails before, and have never had a concern.

Dsscats > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/11/2013 at 00:44

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Get the Forester. They are SPECTACULAR cars.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Party-vi 09/11/2013 at 00:48

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What I call 'Faux-wheel-drive' that is often called AWD, that is FWD based, and rear-wheel assist.

Some Automatic transmission Audis and Subarus are similar to that, but manual gearbox Subarus, and Most longitudinal-driveline Audi Quattros are full-time REAL AWD... that are fully engaged, all the time, with a differential in the center, splitting torque between the front and rear axles, but allowing them to turn at different speeds, which is required for cornering.

That is where 4x4 falls down. With a locked transfer case, the front and rear axles cannot spin at different speeds (like a rear axle spool or locked differential between the rear tires, but between the axles instead)

If you try to turn on dry pavement with 4x4 engaged, it will try and fight between tire traction and tearing up the drivetrain. On loose surfaces, snow, dirt, etc... the tires give up a bit of traction and slip, instead of the drivetrain binding up.

I prefer full-time real AWD... but it is getting harder and harder to find examples of that. Audis, some Subarus, and a few other higher-dollar options still exist, but they are getting rarer.

Combine that with a manual gearbox, and it is rare indeed.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Boxer_4 09/11/2013 at 00:55

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I am a Subaru guy, and SH Forester has long been on the top of my list, and I have been keeping aprised of those for many years now.

I would almost certainly have to trade in my Legacy GT, and probably still spend more than 10K on a 5-speed manual 2.5X Premium Forester, and I would definitely want the 2011-13 version, with the new FB25 chain-timing-set engine, with more torque.

But Foresters are popular, and 2011 is still fairly recent. A Forester like that is still likely $18-20K, where the XTerra above is a 2005, and $12K, and I might be able to swing it without selling the Legacy GT. (but probably would have to sell my 92 SVX to clear out some insurance and registration bills, and the driveway.)

I have long wished for an EZ36-powered Forester, with Legacy Spec.B's 6-speed VTD transaxle and torsen rear diff... but that hasn't happened, and is highly unlikely. It would be lighter and sportier than a Tribeca.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Dsscats 09/11/2013 at 00:57

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Which model do you have experience with?

They have been at the top of my very short list for a long time.

Boxer_4 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/11/2013 at 01:32

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A friend of mine has a 2012 SH with the FB25. It is definitely a smoother running engine, however, I didn't really perceive the added torque. I did kind of miss the slight rough idle of the EJ253. The new FB25 is a little too quiet for my taste. The timing belt and relocated oil filter are nice though.

If getting the XTerra would mean potentially keeping the LGT, that might be the better way to go.

An EZ36D Forester would be cool, and would definitely be significantly lighter and sportier than the Tribeca. The EZ36D in our Outback makes it quite a sleeper, as well as entertaining to drive, and it is only 600 lbs lighter than the Tribeca.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Boxer_4 09/11/2013 at 01:48

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FB25 is only a few more ft.lbs. of torque, so probably not a big difference, especially not with a 4EAT, but given the choice, I'd rather have a bit more...

My 05 Legacy GT has been a fantastic car for 7+ years, but at 109K miles it is chewing up it's suspension yet again, and the bad pavement around here is not doing it any favors.

I am a bit torn... given the prices of Tribecas... (~15K for a 5-passenger 09 SE), or 18+K for a low-option 5-speed Forester... the amenities, power, and tow-rating, for less money might actually get me to give up the manual gearbox. I wouldn't consider a 4EAT 90% FWD Subaru (BANE of my SVX's existence) ... but I could consider a 5EAT 65% rear bias, VTD AWD H6.

And I have a little thing for black-sheep of the Subaru family... (SVX mentioned again, and getting a Legacy GT over a WRX or WRX STI.)

Party-vi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/11/2013 at 08:46

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The Quattro system is in-fact FWD default. Again, it only sends power to the rear wheels if loss of traction is detected at the front wheels. Now, the system is always on hence the "full-time" classification just like every other AWD system - there's no such thing as part-time AWD. Even Nissan's ATTESA system defaults to FWD and (upon detection of slippage) engages the viscous coupling in the rear differential and sends up to 50% of torque to the rear wheels. Mitsubishi's system does the same, and so does SAAB's system IIRC. I would imagine that Lamborghini's system (from Haldex IIRC) defaults to RWD and sends power to the front when needed. BMW's xDrive uses a series of clutches to distribute 100% of the power front-or-rear, but is defaulted to a 40f/60r split when not engaged (so a "true" AWD system, like Subaru's system for manual cars like you stated).

On the other hand we have 4WD, where power is sent evenly to all wheels all the time when engaged. A full-time 4WD system suffers from the bucking that you described BUT a part-time system (such as the system found in the Xterra, Jeep XJ, CJ, Wrangler, etc) disengages the front drive shaft when in 2Hi (only the rear wheels being driven). When engaged, the transfer case locks the front drive shaft to spin in unison with the rear, and all four tires drive at once. It's a purely mechanical linkage like AWD, but there is not usually a viscous coupling or clutch pack to split torque front or rear. Regardless of traction all wheels are driven at the same time, but additional traction cannot be sent to other wheels as the torque split is constant.

This is the advantage a part-time 4WD system has over AWD - it's essentially a RWD configuration until you move the lever or push the button to engage the front axle. The disadvantage is that traction in a part-time 4WD system cannot be managed by the computer to send more power to non-slipping wheels.

Also on loose surfaces AWD systems give up traction and slip as well, as the difference in tire rotation speeds is sorted out through the differential just like on a part-time 4WD vehicle.

All of that aside, if you're looking for something to take on some dusty trails or maybe gravel and dirt roads a Subaru would be perfect. If you're looking to drive through the woods or off any well-established paths (say, mud roads or sand) I would strongly suggest something with real 4WD and a two-speed transfer case. If you're set on full-time AWD and a manual (and are content with gravel and dirt roads) it appears that you'll need a Subaru.

Edit: As I failed to notice in your post and as Automatch pointed out the longitudinal Quattro system defaults to 40f/60r split, but the transverse systems still default to FWD under normal driving conditions.

Tom McParland > Party-vi 09/11/2013 at 08:52

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I'm fairly certain on B7 A4s the Quattro is a 60/40 split and no longer FWD default. The engine is longitudinally mounted for that rear-drive bias.

Party-vi > Tom McParland 09/11/2013 at 08:57

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Ah that's correct - the B7 has a 40f/60r default split while the previous-gen had a 50/50 split.

Tom McParland > Party-vi 09/11/2013 at 09:01

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But I am curious if the previous gen had a 50/50 with a FWD default (probably to the the horizontally mounted motor) I wonder if the B7 is RWD default...Hmmmm. Would seem so.

Party-vi > Tom McParland 09/11/2013 at 09:12

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The Quattro system is different for horizontal and longitudinal engines - the longitudinal engines were at a 50/50 default split and the new ones are now 40f/60r default. the Horizontal (or transverse) system is a FWD-default Haldex system which has as few drawbacks (like a huge rear diff the cuts down on trunk space, all the tires must be the same size, etc.). If the engine is longitudinal (the V6, I4) then it's 40/60 with a rear bias. If you're getting a transverse setup (like the A3) then it's the FWD bias Haldex system ( think it's default is 90f/10r).

Tom McParland > Party-vi 09/11/2013 at 09:15

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Quattro knowledge acquired! Thanks!

Dsscats > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/11/2013 at 09:39

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We have a 2010, but I have a friend who has the 2006/2007 model with over 150,000 miles on it. It still runs like new and he's only had to do regular maintenance.

Nibbles > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/11/2013 at 09:40

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I had a 2005 xTerra S 4.0 6MT, dark grey, as a DD. I returned around 21 mpg. Ride was great (for an SUV), power was definitely there, handling was good (for an SUV). Never had a lick of issue on mixed terrain or mixed weather. Shift-on-the-fly works just seamlessly. I will recommend the xTerra (or Frontier for that matter) to anyone. Reliability was spot on.

One minor factor is they are a tad on the light side at the rear. If you live in a wet state, you'll probably want to load some weight in the back during the bad months.

Boxer_4 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/11/2013 at 12:05

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The FB25 has only 4 ft lbs more torque, but at slightly lower rpm. There are probably some situations where it would be more noticeable, but not really in every day driving.

Our Outback 3.6R has the same drivetrain as the Tribeca, and we love it so far. The 5EAT is miles ahead of the 4EAT in terms of refinement. In fact, that drivetrain has a much more expensive feel to it than that of the Forester.

HammerheadFistpunch > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/11/2013 at 22:58

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Man I've been here, I had a 2005 forester xt 5 speed and I loved it, then i wanted a real offroad vehicle and shopped around for just about everything including the xterra, i followed the J. Walter path and bought an 80 series land cruiser. Mileage is crap and its a real truck as far as driving, but its better than anything I've ever taken off road. and a very nice vehicle. I will give you my thoughts on a forester...make sure you are committed to the idea that its not a great off-roader, and its not going to be that sporty. Its middle of the road, and thats great if you dabble in each, but it doesn't do any one thing well. I sold mine in hopes of getting a cruiser and a miata, so far so good.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > HammerheadFistpunch 09/12/2013 at 00:24

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Well, I don't have much call for off-road. Maybe a little open-property driving on very rare occaision.

Mostly snow and bad pavement clearance.

I have a Miata already, although the wife prefers it, and drives it most of the time, and don't really expect an SUV to be a performance vehicle, although I do hope that stepping down from a tuned Legacy GT turbo, that I'll be satisfied with it being able to get up and move out of it's own way without 6 cylinders or a turbocharger.

If I wanted a performance SUV... there is a GMC Typhoon around for about the same price as the above Xterra. I don't know that I want to sentence it to a long prolonged death sentence of winter slogging daily driver duty, for it being a collector's item.

But I have long wanted a more focused Forester XT. Damn CVT or 4EAT only is a KILLER.

Australia got an S-Edition, with a 268hp WRX spec engine, backed by a VTD-5EAT gearbox, and painted WR Blue. I would SO buy that, even with an automatic... and even a heartbeat fast, if it had Spec.B Legacy's 6-speed VTD gearbox. But not available here.